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Sarangadhara
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Username: Sarangadhara

Post Number: 62
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 8:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



sare indiainfo mama , cya tomorrow

7kondalu bhai , naa posts anni okka sari chusi ,nee replies anni post cheyyi mama

ee roju ki ive naa replies , have to go now , will be back tomorrow , will reply to your new posts then

JAI HIND
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Indiainfo
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Username: Indiainfo

Post Number: 124
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

first of all one point we are sharing information so no point of thanks for reading your posts.naa doubts ni kuda meeru anthe opika tho answer chestunnaru kada.It's give and take policy. inkokati nannu garu anakandi...just call me indiainfo.

chala baga chepparu kani naaku time ledu sarangadara garu.naaku inka doubts unnayi.ippudu ikkada 3:00am ayyindi.nenu repu malli vastanu so that we can discuss tomorrow.
see ya
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Sarangadhara
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Username: Sarangadhara

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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP




1.buddhism followed rightly as said by padmasambhava or bodhisatvva(ancient names of buddha i prefer them for some reasons)

the original one emphasized a simple living , the path of nirvana ,leaving desires

but even buddha did not say all have to do this way by becoming monks .

CORE PROBLEM WAS WITH WHAT PEOPLE DID AT THAT TIME ,BUDDHAS TEACHIGNS ARE FINE

"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Sarangadhara
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Username: Sarangadhara

Post Number: 60
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



India info garu first of all naa long posts opika ga chaduvu tunnanduku thanks andi .

you do have a point india info garu , just religion change cheyyadu kani any religion that creates an imbalance adi chestundi andi

for example there are two abrahmic religions , none of them has the tolerance , it can classify people as beleivers or non beleivers , hindusim did not do that .

Okay coming to the core point , WAS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH BUDDHISM

my answer is yes andi , Monastery loki velle vadiki minimum amount of vairagyam vundali so that he stays on that path

for example society lo andaru pelli chesukvoatam maneste oka imbalance vastundi and it happened that way .

ALA POORTI PATTU LENI VALLU INDULGED IN VARIOUS VICES , THOUGH IT WAS NOT ENTIRELY THE RELIGIONS FAULT.

kani aa religion ni nadipinche aa peddalu at that time did not check it

Rajyam ele rajulu kuda vadilesi pote , inka rajya bharam mose vadu vundadu kada andi .

prati vallu pani cheyyakunda biksha atnam cheste kastham kada .


You do have an valid point india info garu , partially meeru right kuda kani jarigindi idi , references chala vunnayi veetiki
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Indiainfo
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Username: Indiainfo

Post Number: 123
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

thaks for clarification sarangadhara garu

here comes one more doubt:

GREAT BLOW TO HINDUSIM CAME WITH BUDDHISM

1.original idea was to purify hinduism but what happened was people left their original duties and became monks

2.the country fell into chaos , monastries turned into prostituion centres , gambling and other behaviour.

3.kings left their martial arts

by the above 3 examples you mean to say that people after converting to monks all those incidents took place...
if you say so then i should come to conclusion that there is some thing wrong with buddhism which is not true in my sense.

sarangadara garu one thing andi...
i don't think religion will change the culture or attitude of the person. It all depends on the person and who doesn't have self control and wants will create this type of situations.

If i am wrong please clarify me so that i am very happy.

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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP




thanks for pointing it out to me india info garu ,
please do read the places where i have inadverntly used the word caste as varna or jaati

thanks for the correction .
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Indiainfo
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

i want to ask you one question that whether you are typing all this matter or doing cut and paste.don't take it in wrong way.
i have asked this because in the below first example you said that there were no caste system initially in this sentance :
Fathers started training sons in their own Varna, regardless of whether the sons had the capability to perform in the Varna or not -- hence it became slightly difficult for people to switch Varnas

NOW HERE YOU WERE CHANGING THE SENTANCE AS

slowly the ego problem started with one caste considering it more than others , turf wars broke out .

if you were typing can you please explain why you were using caste when there is no question of caste.}
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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



India info garu mee answer paina verse lo vundi

one who is honest by nature speaks the truth and is in pursuit of brahma gnana is treated as an brahmin

there was no concept of birth caste , neither can a person by birth can claim it , please see my posts below with the scriptures proof.


original system change ayyi ee kali yuganiki edo ayi vundocchu ,anta matrana adi correct ani kadu kada .

}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



proof kavalsina vallu kinda post choodandi babailu now to show you how the original caste system got degenerated.

ASALU ORIGINAL SYTEM NI CASTE ANAKANDI , THE ORIGINAL WAS VARNA SYSTEM BASED ON CHARACTER NOT AT ALL ON BIRTH.

1.Ancient History (6000 BC -- 500 BC) Sindhu saraswati civilization time (dont use the word aryan here )

The original system was founded on this principle

JANMANA JAYATE SHUDRAH , VEDA GYANATH VIPRAH , BRAHMA GYANATH BRAMNAH

by birth due to lack of knowledge all are shudras , one who learns becomes viprah a student or dwijah , the twice born , endukante he got knowledge , brahma jnana vacchina vadu becomes the brahmin

PROOF; RIGHT FROM VASISTHAS WIFE ARUNDHATI , AITREYA, PARASHARA, ALL THE GREAT SAGES same concept chepparu

ORIGINAL SYSTEM WAS BASED ON PURE HR PRINCIPLES , RESPECT EVERBODY , BUT DIVIDE THE WORK ACCORDING TO WHAT HE IS GOOD AT (CHARACTERISTICS)

it was an harmonious society

THEN WHAT WENT WRONG

1.Fathers started training sons in their own Varna, regardless of whether the sons had the capability to perform in the Varna or not -- hence it became slightly difficult for people to switch Varnas

slowly the ego problem started with one caste considering it more than others , turf wars broke out .

second great change
GREAT BLOW TO HINDUSIM CAME WITH BUDDHISM

1.original idea was to purify hinduism but what happened was people left their original duties and became monks

2.the country fell into chaos , monastries turned into prostituion centres , gambling and other behaviour.

3.kings left their martial arts

TO prevent total chaos some sections of the people closetted themselves from the destruction around . THE CASTE SYSTEM BECAME MORE RIGID TO PREVENT INFILTRATIONS INTO THE COMMUNITY.


3.BIGGEST BLOW ISLAMIC RULE

IT IS AN KNOWN FACT , IT IS EASY TO SUBJUGATE PEOPLE WHEN YOU KNOW THE EXACT PRESSURE POINTS , A ENEMY WHO HAS DISPERSED ITSELF IS HARD TO FIND

TO WITHSTAND AGAINST THE MIGHTY ISLAMIC EMPIRE AND ATROCITIES , THE SYSTEM REACHED ITS ATROCIOUS NATURE BY SEGREGATING PEOPLE.


THE last nail was driven by the britishers who succesfully implanted the idea of caste (NOTE CASTE WAS NEVER THE WORD OR SYSTEM , VARNA OR JAATI)

and now with further modifications it reached its present stage .

The caste system could not have been part of Hindu religious philosophy, since it violates fundamental Hindu doctrine, according to which there is no absolute distinction between individuals, since the atman dwells in the hearts of all beings. There is no religious sanction whatsoever to the concept of the caste system in Hinduism.


}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Indiainfo
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

oh ok sarangadara garu,
mari ee paina cheppina rushulu ippudu ee varnaniki aina leka ee jathi kinda aina treat chestara
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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



India info garu , original system enti ala change vacchindi post cheddamu anukune lopala adigaru

my intent was to show that original system lo varna or jaati was not based on birth ani .

it was an equal system ani .
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Indiainfo
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

THAT CASTE WAS DECIDED NOT ON BIRTH

1.}Sage Vyasa---born to satyavati from the fisher woman caste but is regarded as the greatest sage


Given examples ki aa quote ki sambandam enti sarangadara garu

2.}Sage Valmiki--- hunter class

3.}Sage Aitareya, who wrote the Aitareya Upanishad and was born of a Shudra woman.


4.}Rishi Parashar, the famous law-giver was the son of a Chandala, the lowest of the Sudras

Rishi Vasishta was the son of a prostitute, but honored as a sage}


5.}Saint Thiruvalluvar who wrote Thirukural was only a weaver. Other saints were adored including Kabir, Sura Dasa, Ram Dasa and Tukaram came from the humblest class of Hindu society.


given exampples ki aa quote ki sambandam enti sarangadara garu
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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 6:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



Ika pote title of the thread to show you what originally hinduism is about will give you the direct quotes of the sciptures

1.HINDUSIM ORIGINAL CASTE SYSTEM WAS NOT WHAT IT IS TODAY , VARIOUS FORCES SHAPED IT TO ITS PRESENT DISTORTED SHAPE SO DONT BLAME THE RELIGION FOR THAT.

In the Bhagavad Gita, Ch.4, Verse 13: The Lotus-Eyed God. Keshava, One Who Has Long, Black Matted Locks. Krishna, Dark-Complexioned Lord says:

guna karma vibhagashah



2.}A most forceful of all is Sri Krishna's statement:

"The devotees of the Lord are not Shudras; Shudras are they who have no faith in the Lord whichever be their caste. A wise man should not slight even an outcaste if he is devoted to the Lord; he who looks down on him will fall into hell." - Mahabharata




3.} "There is no superior caste. The Universe is the work of the Immense Being. The beings created by him were only divided into castes according to their aptitude." - Mahabharata, Shanti Parva, 188


4.}"Of Brahmanas, Kshtriyas and Vaishyas, as also the Sudras, O Arjuna, the duties are distributed according to the qualities born of their own nature." - Bhagavad Gita


5.}“A man does not become a Brahman by the mere fact of his birth, not even by the acquisition of Vedic scholarship; it is good character alone that can make one a Brahman. He will be worse than a Shudra if his conduct is not in conformity with the rules of good behavior.”

Manu sums up their relative status and functions in society in the following verse:

“The Brahman acquires his status by his knowledge, the Kshatriya by his martial vigor; the Vaishya by wealth; and the Shudra by birth alone.”



FURTHER PROOF

THAT CASTE WAS DECIDED NOT ON BIRTH

1.}Sage Vyasa---born to satyavati from the fisher woman caste but is regarded as the greatest sage


2.}Sage Valmiki--- hunter class

3.}Sage Aitareya, who wrote the Aitareya Upanishad and was born of a Shudra woman.


4.}Rishi Parashar, the famous law-giver was the son of a Chandala, the lowest of the Sudras

Rishi Vasishta was the son of a prostitute, but honored as a sage}


5.}Saint Thiruvalluvar who wrote Thirukural was only a weaver. Other saints were adored including Kabir, Sura Dasa, Ram Dasa and Tukaram came from the humblest class of Hindu society.



}}











"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP


Cinejeevi mama very well said , charitra ni puranalani ni kalapakandi ani .

1.First of all aryan invasion theory has been torn to shreds by most of the new historians , it is just an ploy foisted upon the indians by britishers

ee theory impact is to show even you are invaders so vere vallu mimmalani kolla godite badha enti ani.

This one theory has corroded all the history

CORRECTIONS

1.vedas are not attributed to people they are APOURESHEYAS(not written by human beings)

2.the concept of aryans and dravidians as i said is wrong (arya in sanskrit means one who is nice , honest , and well respected)

ade padanni ye pedda manishikaina vadocchu


Konta mandi sambar gallaki ee gola vuntundi mee dravidians and stuff ani , agreed tamil linguistically kasta different but this can be traced to pre pali , brahmi period.


Agastya ki vere vishayylo pramukhyam vundi , yes he crossed the vindhyas , but it is not right to say he taught the vedas to the dravidians.

WHEN THE CONCEPT ITSELF IS WRONG.

REFERENCES
1.The Invasion That Never Was - By Michel Danino and Sujata Nahar

2.In Search Of The Cradle of Civilization: New Light on Ancient India - By Georg Feurerstein, Subhash Kak & David Frawley

3.The Story of Civilization: Our Oriental Heritage - By Will Durant

4.Colonial Indology: Sociopolitics of the Ancient Indian Past - By Dilip K. Chakrabarti


PLEASE SHOW YOUR REFERENCES TOO IF YOU CLAIM SOMETHING
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Cinejeevi
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

7kondalu
agastya gotram candidate chepte nuvvu ade nijam anesukunnav.

look at ur posts from the beginning. Not to degrade but u said in #15 that u read. in #16 u say u listened to ur friend. which is correct?? decide first.

prati vallaki gotram to paatu kontamandi rushulu kooda vuntaru (atleast for Bs). pravara cheppetappudu ee rendu/moodu rushula tarvata vachhe rushi pere gotram avutundi general gaa. ante aa vamsasthula poorveekulu sadaru rushula ki edo link vundi ani oka idi.

paiga oke gotram peru vunna vallu vividha kulallo, oke kulam lo kooda vuntaru. anduke "sa gotreekulu" ani cheppi oke gotram vunna valla ki pelli cheyyaru mana peddollu.



Soundarya Atma ku Santi Kalugu gaaka
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7kondalu
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

CJ mama, nenu chadivina books 10 to 15 yrs back chadivinavi.

naaku telisi innaiah boosk release ayyindi 95 tharuvatha eppudo. athani book chadive avakasam ippati varaku raaledu naaku.

agasthyudu gurinchi enduku adigaanu ante, ma friend valla gothram agasthya ghothram. vaade cheppe vadu agasthydu is the first person to cross vindhyas to come into south india ani.

naaku purana kalakshepam meeda asalu interest ledu mama. evaranna puranalni charithra tho kalipi discuss cheyyagaligithe more than welcome.

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Azad
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

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Gaali
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Link aa II mama,

Malli Google cheyyali. Yidi nenu Amar Chitra Katha lo chadivindi.
Dum maro Dum, Mit jaye gam. Bolo subah sham, Hare Super Hare Star!
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Cinejeevi
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

7kondalu maava
okavela nuvvu ganaka ilayya raasina book chadivi ikkada discuss chestunte matram i am out.

inka deep gaa velte asalu ramudu Iran lo puttadu ani akkada nundi vachhi ikkada vunnadu ani kooda oka vadana vundi.

*************************************************

Mainly you are mixing Puranalu with Charitra. Rentiki lanke kudaradu. Puranalaki charitratatmaka maina adharalu dorakachhu. But not the other way round.

ee charitra raasina vallu kooda correct anna sootram emi ledu.

*******************************************
neeku veelaite Andhra Bhoomi vaadu "edi charitra" ani konni articles raasadu. avi chaduvu. archives vunnayo levo telidu.
Soundarya Atma ku Santi Kalugu gaaka
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Indiainfo
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

gaali mama
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Gaali
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Agastya muni kundalo pudataadu. Atani ancestors ki mukti prasadinchataniki pelli chesukontaadu (Lopamudra ni).
Dum maro Dum, Mit jaye gam. Bolo subah sham, Hare Super Hare Star!
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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



Mama agastyudu ki chala pramukhyam vundi

two stories

1. Vatapi-Ilvala ante rakshasulu ni champi

2.kaveri nadi ni himalayas nunchi tecchi

3.samudra garbham lo vunna rakshasulu ni samudram anta tagesi devutala cheta samharinchi

ANNTIKI KANTE IMPORTNAT SRI RAMA CHANDRUDU RAVANA SURIDI TO PORADI ALASI POYINAPPUDU

ADITYA MANTRA CHEPPI

inka chala vunnayi babai

evening vastanu mama take care
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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7kondalu
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quote:

vindhya parvatam (parvatalu kaadu) agastya mahamuniki kosam tana podugu tagginchukundi. tirigi ayana vaste perigipotundi. anduke agastyudu kaasi daati vachhesi tirigi atu vellaledu.




mama nenu chadivina daani prakaram, agasthya was the first aryan to cross vindhya parvatham to enter into the land of anaryans (dravidians).

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Gaali
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quote:

agasthyudu mana charithra lo enduku famous ayyadu mama ??

athani importnace konchem cheppava.




Vaatapi ni thini jeernichinanduku. kikiki
Dum maro Dum, Mit jaye gam. Bolo subah sham, Hare Super Hare Star!
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7kondalu
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

agasthyudu mana charithra lo enduku famous ayyadu mama ??

athani importnace konchem cheppava.



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Cinejeevi
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

7 kondalu
vindhya parvatam (parvatalu kaadu) agastya mahamuniki kosam tana podugu tagginchukundi. tirigi ayana vaste perigipotundi. anduke agastyudu kaasi daati vachhesi tirigi atu vellaledu.

enduku height tagginchukundi ante malla inko kadha.
Soundarya Atma ku Santi Kalugu gaaka
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Sarangadhara
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



Mahabharatam lo vana parvam lo vuntundi aa ghatam

Mama oka urgent pani vundi , just give me two hours , will be back , we will discuss all the threads at detail
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Sarangadhara
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Username: Sarangadhara

Post Number: 51
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 129.219.6.18

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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



7KONDALU MAMA

vindhyas bowed down to agastya
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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Sarangadhara
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara

Post Number: 50
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 129.219.6.18

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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 5:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP



Nuvvu icchina points annitiki answer post chestanu mama .

all the things inflicted on caste system also , just wait till evening

JAI HIND
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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7kondalu
Pilla Bewarse
Username: 7kondalu

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 160.33.98.119

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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

keep all those things aside,

vindhya parvathalu evari ki mokarillinayi ??
emanna idea unda ??


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Sarangadhara
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara

Post Number: 49
Registered: 03-2004
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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP





1.IT IS VERY SAD SUPPORTING ONES OWN AND TELLING YOU THE TRUTH YOU TAKE IT AS TELIVATELAU

NIJAM NI OPPUKUNE DHAIRYAM LEKAPOTE DISCUSS CHESI ANAVASARAM MAMA

2, TOLD YOU THE REASONS FOR changes

yes i agreed

1.intial change was from the people who started the ego problem

2. was due to buddhism

3.was due to islamic invasions

Naadi telivitelu kadu mahaprabho , NEEKU NACCHADI EDI AINA TELIVITELU ENA


CHOODU MAMA POORTIGA OPEN GA CHESE SHAKTI NEEKU VUNTE , WHEN I MEAN YOU CAN ACCEPT BOTH SIDES CHEDDAMU TODAY EVENING

LEDU nenu cheppinde nijam , nuvvu cheppedi telivitetalu anukunte nenu emi cheyyalenu

TAKE CARE JAI HIND

}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light
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7kondalu
Pilla Bewarse
Username: 7kondalu

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 160.33.98.119

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Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IP

Sarangadhara babai,

let us discuss about hindusim lo kulathathvam here.

nee uddesam prakaram, hinduism lo evils anni personal greed, buddhism and islamisation vallana vacchinavi.

na uddesam prakaram, slavery kuda peronal greed thone start ayyindi. system anedi vyakthula personal greed ni control cheyyagalagaali. leka pothe alanti system fail ayyinatlu.

How can you justify the acts of,
pouring seesam (lead) in the ears lower caste people they listen to vedic chanting ??

what made some people to force lower caste people to tie a broomstick to their back so that streets used by upper caste people will be cleaned from the "asubhram" off lower caste people when the walk on those streets ??

mana lo chedu pettukoni, buddhism ni, islam ni, ledante britishers ni thittadam palaayana vadam kindaki vasthundi.
nee laga nenu telivi galavadi ni, chaduvu konna vadini kaaka povocchu . kaani naaku telisina vatini raayadam lo, naaku teliyanivi nerchukovadam lo mathram nenu eppudu mundu unta.