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Chalam
Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 629
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.171
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:54 pm: |    |
pulp mama, thnx for the inputs about gulzar. I think this breed of conscientious film makers is dying now. Mani ratnam tries to raise issues but always ends up offering romanticized solutions, not good.
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Phani_pulp_f
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Phani_pulp_f
Post Number: 38
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 210.214.246.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 3:10 pm: | |
from the book because he is by meghana gulzar..
At the time of partition,Papi was eleven years old and lived in delhi. they actually witnessed the horrors..corpses strewn in the streets on which they played..koshanara bagh turned into a site of heinous murder, where men would be dragged and then have their heads chopped off and thrown into nallah there..people they knew from everyday life- ordinary people- had turned into monsters and killers with swords and knives in their hands..my father remembers a man called samandar singh dragging another boy-a muslim, who used to lead their prayers in school.when asked where he was going samandar singh replied in punjabi,"to cut him into pieces"..after a while, papi saw him return with a bloody sword in his hand.
the nightmarish memories from that time have seeped into papi's poems, his short stories and his long standing desire to make a movie on partition of india.But the prudish attitude of government and people themselves,who preferred to keep these scars of history hidden from the conscious mind,came in way of him realising the dream.the scars were now being brought into the open -and this led papi to make maachis in '96.. |
Phani_pulp_f
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Phani_pulp_f
Post Number: 37
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 210.214.246.226
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 2:53 pm: | |
IBM..meghana gulzar in her book "BECAUSE HE IS.." on gulzar quotes Papi still maintains that there were hardly any similarities between suchitra sen's character and I.G, but that I.G was the correct model for the character of a female politician..couple of subtle,indirect mentions were also there which made me think he's pro-congress..and the mentions of I.G in his films too(like IJAAZAT)..hence i said atleast i felt so.. and wanted to keep it off the record...
maybe he wasn't pro..but certainly maachis wasn't against I.G and her policies..its about the after effects of her assassination..
A lot of sikhs were massacred all over INDIA after the death of I.G.(around 3000) ..a lot more innocent sikhs were taken into the custody of police in punjab..most of these sikhs were never seen again..a lot more sikhs resorted to terrorism due to these incidents..MAACHIS is a film which probes into such circumstances which produce these anti-government people..
'aadhe ko 47 khaa gai aur aadhe ko 84'
gulzar has witnessed the '47 riots in his childhood and always wished to make a movie on the partition.. then this '84 incident happened with the anti-sikh riots..this prompted him to make a film on these riots which is more contemporary and also easy to handle in terms of budget etc..hence MAACHIS was lit...
i believe '84 stood for anti-sikh riots rather than the bluestar operation..
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Nag_rocks
Bewarse
Username: Nag_rocks
Post Number: 1040
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 64.12.117.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 9:41 am: | |
Farenheit 9/11 should be watched every one. This is one heck of a documentary/movie or whatever u want to call it. It shows the kind of buffoon that leads this country. some people might call it a low blow, but it's not. There are some many accurate facts in this film, they were just shown from moore's point of view. |
Phani_pulp_f
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Phani_pulp_f
Post Number: 36
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 202.138.112.243
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 7:51 am: | |
Ibmast..i felt gulzar didn't intend to strip anything off I.G through AANDHI..he only wanted to show that afterall she is a HUMAN/WOMAN and has her own emotional and personal bonds.. AARTI DEVI's character was pretty neat,decent and sympathy raising as the one stuck in an emotional conflict between political and personal life at a stage when it's too late for her to get back to the family bonds..
Though the film had censor problems..it won accolades from all the ardent admirers and fans of I.G..(except from the few narrow-minded people who treat her like a goddess and doesn't like to see her like a human-being..like the ones u mentioned in ur post)...
gulzar always criticises the system and the principles and rarely opts for a personal attack..
In the film..it was AARTI's opposition leaders who opt for dirty and cunning ways to bring her down..and finally aarti devi wins with a stunning majority(as naseeruddin shaw says in another gulzar movie IJAAZAT..indiraji ne sabki chhutti kardee)
AANDHI is a little similar to the movie AMERICAN PRESIDENT..the same rival senator and dirty politics, the final speech of both AARTI and michael douglas..etc
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Phani_pulp_f
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Phani_pulp_f
Post Number: 35
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 202.138.112.243
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 6:37 am: | |
Chalam.. got ur point..
but i took it in a wrong sense when u put AANDHI and MANDALADHEESUDU side by side and even mentioned the words..accused him/her..
mandaladheesudu..a heavy dosage of accusations and sarcasm on the ruling party..YES..
AANDHI..NO..
these lines from pulpfiction are the exact analogy for the difference between these two movies in terms of the accusation content
It ain't no fuckin' ballpark either. Now look, maybe your method of massage differs from mine, but touchin' his wife's feet, and stickin' your tongue in her holiest of holies, ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fuckin' sport. |
Jamadagni
Bewarse
Username: Jamadagni
Post Number: 974
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 141.152.255.52
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 5:57 pm: | |
Good one Nee. 5 stars!! A long awaited champion for liberals atlast!!
Hanuman/Jamadagni
www.princefans.us
Moveaway FCUK....PLAYLIFE is here! |
Deepblue
Desanike Pedda Bewarse
Username: Deepblue
Post Number: 1938
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 24.1.165.188
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 4:16 pm: | |
damn that was good chalam babai
i got to watch it now at any cost
DURADA : DOOLA unte teerchuKO |
Ibmast
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Ibmast
Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 80.3.128.6
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 4:10 pm: | |
machaan, that was a neat job.Kudos.
Aandhi lo Gulzar stripped IG of the strong Durga halo that her fawning chamchas had managed to create for her. ..(there was one moron who in the days of the emergency had come up with a slogan that went 'india is indira and indira india)..
Gulzar portrayed the character as an extremely insecure one..infact it was her husband who turns out to be the more intelligent and mature one but who walks out of the marriage unable to take her and her father imposing their political ambitions on him. Enough to invite the wrath of IG.
"as he was a passive supporter of the CONGRESS during the times of JN and IG"
This is far from the truth buddy. Gulzar has made it clear in no uncertain terms that he has no love lost for IG or her party. I clearly remember him in an interview with vir sanghvi saying 'punjab ek ghatiya siyaasi mazaak tha'. Maachis was nothing but an outburst against the IG's dirty experiment in punjab. One dialogue from the movie that touches you -
When one of the militants from om puris group asks him where his family/relatives are , he says 'aadhe ko 47 khaa gai aur aadhe ko 84'..(or something to this effect)..
One movie that made a govt pee in its pants was something called 'kissa kursi ka'...the film was never released... |
Hustler
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Hustler
Post Number: 92
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 138.87.136.110
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 2:54 pm: | |
Andhi was more about the relationship between HE and SHE and how the politics influenced that relationship. I mean to say gulzar showed the emotional side of SHE than th tough headed politician rather. |
Chalam
Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 574
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.170
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 2:46 pm: | |
pulp, it took guts to make a movie like Aandhi. I hope you know the kind of power Mrs. G weilded in those days. I was purely commenting on that aspect. that the movie did not mind showing her as she was without actually eulogizing her was quite commendable. anyways, this discussion would prolly distract from the purpose of the thread. so lets stop it here.
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Phani_pulp_f
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Phani_pulp_f
Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 210.214.246.202
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 2:38 pm: | |
good one chalam..i haven't seen the movie..would try to catch it on DVD here..
but regarding..The only other parallels that I know of are prolly 'mandalaadheesudu' and 'aandhi' that took on the reigning (?) leader and accused him/her squarely. I feel proud that Indian democracy threw up such movies.
i agree with mandalaadheesudu but why did u feel gulzar's aandhi took a dig at the reigning leader(SHE)?..
I felt it only highlighted some of the dirty tricks and deeds of the politicians on both sides in general.. especially during elections..
Infact gulzar glorified the SHE..
as he was a passive supporter of the CONGRESS during the times of JN and IG..(atleast i felt so and would like to keep this strictly off the record)..
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Chalam
Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 572
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.170
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 2:14 pm: | |
ok, DB mama short review.
Early on in the movie, Dubya asks Michael Moore to 'go, get some real work'. this movie apparently is an answer to that. sarcastic, humorous, poignant, scathing - this movie is all of those and more than anything else, it is a very IMPORTANT movie of our generation which means it simply is a MUST watch. The only other parallels that I know of are prolly 'mandalaadheesudu' and 'aandhi' that took on the reigning (?) leader and accused him/her squarely. I feel proud that Indian democracy threw up such movies.
Moore goes to great lengths to incriminate dubya in the Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) accusing him of purely ulterior motives. For ppl that closely follow these events, most of the stuff is well known but even here, there were some things that I had not known, like James Roth being the pointman for the Bin Ladens in Texas and he happens to be Bush's National Guard buddy and that there were only 11,000 troops committed to the Bin Laden hunt. In one of the characteristic witty but deep moments, someone comments Manhattan has more than 11,000 policemen !!! Moore clearly takes the name of Carlyle group and their involvement in the whole GOTUS Oil deals and their hobnobbing with the Saudis. I was though disappointed that Pakistan did not figure anywhere, though many of the deals that Carlyle group did, went through BCCI ( bank in Pakistan that was closed recentlty, all big shots inclyuding Mush had stakes in this ). Also, apart from James Baker being a prime conduit for carlyle group, there is this paki jackal, Mansoor Ijaz ( fox news terrorism 'expert' ) who is a big figure in many of these deals. his name is not mentioned anywhere. The focus is entirely on Dubya and Moore takes care not to portray him as an evil incarnate but never stops short of showing him as a bungling cowboy from Texas. and that precisely is the shortcoming IMO. more than Dubya himself, there are ppl like Karl rove, wolwfowitz, dick cheney the so-called neocons that lead Dubya from the back. Moore somehow could not focus on them and that remains a disservice to the American Nation in an attempt such as this.
moving away from content, as a film-making effort, this movie is UP there with the best. Moore shows the now famous Bush's silence after knowing about the second attack on WTC, then traces back to several events continuously questioning what was he thinking in those 7 minutes. he answers it finally with a connection to Bin Ladens. BGM throughout the movie is simply amazing, the way he edits seemingly unconnected events evokes laughter and sadness as deemed.
On the whole, it deserves a watch. critics would comment on the below-the-belt attacks of showing Bush etc caught on the wrong foot before the camera but that would simply be missing the forest for the woods. this is one SEMINAL movie that should make all the right thinking americans change their loyalty from the money-minded cabal that's ruling whitehouse now. In contrasting the feelings of an Iraqi mother who lost her kin and an American mother who lost her son for the war, Moore documents that loss of life is pathetic, no matter where it happens. and that ultimately is the message of the movie, make war only when absolutely necessary and not on trumped up charges. In the hall where I watched, there was a standing ovation at the end, ofcourse this is in the 'liberal' SF Bay area. American hinterland might have different reactions. |
Hustler
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Hustler
Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 138.87.158.155
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 1:10 pm: | |
DB bro..
mana BTDB ki yuvraj singh lanti PKM brother already review pettadu.
mY friends when i asked them gave different opinions..sopme said it was ok and some said it was great and very few said it was bad.
It is a must watch if you wanna know more about the Bush gang and other things. |
Deepblue
Desanike Pedda Bewarse
Username: Deepblue
Post Number: 1916
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 24.1.165.188
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 10:58 am: | |
chalam bro,
if u wnateched it, give me your review and thoughts, maa republican boku state lo sarigga aada nivvatam ledu bomma ni, weekend chuddam anukunna, intiki daggira lo ekkada ledu.
DURADA : DOOLA unte teerchuKO |
