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  | Archive through July 30, 2004 | Jai | 37 | 1 | 07-30-04 12:26 am |
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Indiainfo
Bewarse ke Bewarse!
Username: Indiainfo
Post Number: 2118
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 130.243.43.216
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |    |
sarangadharu garu naaku meeru chala work icharu mee posts tho. savadananga anni chadivi doubts tho vasta. |
Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 266
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 12:13 pm: | |
for those who wish to understand the energy theory aspect ,the question of rebirth is also connected ,how do the karmas of one life carry over to the another.
this the upanishads (brihadaranyaka) and many other spiritual literature says , each karma is stored as imprints in the micro cosmic body.
micro cosmic body= karana sareera (the blue print)
jeeyar swami varu one of the discourses lo deeni paina matladaru ,the body has seven sheaths as 7 chakras .
annamaya kosha, the material substance. Sukshma sharira the subtle body, comprises pranamaya kosha, manomaya kosha, and vijnanamaya kosha. Karana sharira, the causal body, comprises Anandamaya kosha, the sheath of Bliss.
 modern photography used to investigate auras around human body has given proof (kirrilian photography).
evari kaina interest vunte the same principles go into pranic healing ,reiki and acupuncture.
people with a scientific bent of mind can find the resources on google.
http://www.crystalinks.com/kirlian.html
just an sample link for the curious .
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 265
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 11:28 am: | |
jai ji , mee karma discussion lo chala points lo differ avutanu , reasons istanu.
1.almost all the sects of hindusim agree on one point , the whole cosmos is described as the form of the lord , the events in place being his lila vilasam.
oftern prakruti (or maya) is said to be under the control of the lord .
ika pote who does karma belong to annaru .
gita chapter 5 verse 15 ni meeru close ga observe cheste swami varu naaku karma belong chestundi ani cheppaledu .
purely logical discussion ga cheppatam kastham ,some thing are difficult intrepret since the human brain has a limitation.
but will still try.i would like to explain some of the things in terms of energy and quantom theory(which i beleive has strong ties with vedanta right from sage kannada who gave the theory of the atom to schrodinger wave equation)
1.There is a system in place , each action is like a arrow , once released it shall create a ripple in the energy system present(the cosmos).
every action has an equal and opposite reaction , the ancient oriental religions recognised everythign as shakti (ancient vedic religions did place more emphasis on the worship of the divine mother as shakti , agni , rudra , indra,surya).
this energy ripple we known as the karma fruit , karma is of three types ,Sanchita, Prarabdha and Kriyamana or Agami Karma. Sanchita Karma is all the accumulated Karmas of the past. All tendencies, individual nature, desire and capabilities come from this. Prarabdha Karma is that portion of the past action in Sanchita Karma that is now taking action and influence in the present birth. It is that effect which has begun, like the fruit ripe for reaping. It can not be avoided or changed, but exhausted by experiencing. Kriyamana or Agami Karma is that which is now being made for the future and can be avoided.
the question of free will also comes into play here , but let me proceed with the question of ownership here.
there is an energy thread that ties the energy ripple to the doer
1.god is like the atma sakshi , the seer who watches everything like the silent witness , he is not responsible for the individuals karma.
2.man too was meant to be not responsible , that is why lord krishna says to arjuna , look at me i do my duty even though i am the almighty but as the silent seer , as long as the motive and ownership caused by ego is not brought into play.
karma fruit shall be given to the person who claims or thinks to be the doer.
sadly it is man who claims this thru his feeling of ego .
for people with a background in physics or cosmology or quantom theory.
think of an sub atomic particle crossing over into a time space domain(similar to quantum tunneling but not the same) , each karma creates a ripple , the ripple shall pass thru the system and the system shall remain as it was untill the bonds are created by ourself.but again energy disturbance at one point should appear in other forms too( sometimes muse is it why it was meant that man claims the karma for himself)
then why do karma at all , one who has reached the ultimate stage need not do it , krishna says this too.sages do it out of compassion for the others to guide them , in reality they have no need to do so.
at times the gita might appear contradictory , but that is not so it might require a higher level of consciousness.
so karma does not belong to god , nor to the human being but sadly it is us who thru our deeds create the past karma which forms the energy bubble which will lead to future birth.
it is we who shall cause pain to ourselves.
as you reap , so shall you sow .
helplessness is due to the fact , though at times we remember sparks of the original nature the force of habit carries us away.
the single most famous verse from the gita
surrender your motive and doership to me .
god is so gracious to accept the mantle on our behalf , since he is a ocean of kindness . and also he has given us the power to free will .
please do not take the literal meaning to free will , refer to my previous post the link on free will.
ORACLE TO NEO
we are here to understand the choices we have already made , i can only show you the door it is upto you to walk thru .
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 264
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 11:02 am: | |
karahara priya garu ,mee questions ki answer istanu .
nenu cheptundi pramanikamaina gita point of view nunchi , guruvulu chala mandi enno chepparu , anni right ani nenu nammanu .
purushartha ni meeru literal ga(dharma artha kama moksha) , nenu use chesina context self effort lo andi.
meeru ganaka mahabharatam lo bhishma pitamahudiki sree krishnula variki jarigindi specific conversation chadivite meeku clear ga ardham avutundi ,bhishma specifically places purushartha above destiny and krishna endorses it.
free will paina ee link chooda galaru , chala basic discussion, okka sari choosaka manam free will paina discussion continue cheddamu.
http://www.dailyreadings.com/free_will.htm
ika pote
-------------------------------------------------- --
My 2 cents….
spirituality doesn't mean numb inactivity (gaali lo deepam petti devudaa..anadam) ...or escaping from worldly problems (mukku moosukoni tapassu chesukovadam)..nor should be ritual ridden (asalu pani maanesi pooojalu punaskaralu cheyadam..)
--------------------------------------------------
Lord krishna himself says one who does not follow it in the true spirit , just does the hatha yoga part of it , one who has not controlled his desires is but an deluded sanyasi who is of no good.
karma sanyasa part lo meeru verses choodagalaru , immediate ga gurtu ledu but post chestanu later.
-------------------------------------------------- ------
What I am not able to understand is chala mandi guruvulu maayanu jayinchandi..ani cheptuntaaru..idi saadhyamenaa…karma bandham nundi tappinchukogalama...are we free to do so?
-------------------------------------------------
are we free to do so ante surely free to do so , but please remember even the thought of freedom comes to one who has crossed a certain threshold (karma threshold) , opportunity is present to each one of us , but some perish like fireflys whereas only some make it through, again please do not say god intended us to be in this prison.
guruvula matalu , only konta mandine ne true gurus ga accept chestanu , for the time being only gita point of view lo bhagavantudu cheppina danine discuss chestunnanu .
free will paina link meeru choodandi.
ika pote who is responsible , same question jai ji philosophy side nunchi discuss chestunnaru,will come to that
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Jai
Bewarse
Username: Jai
Post Number: 860
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.0.54.131
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 11:43 pm: | |
quote:all the world’s a stage...all men and women are mere players
"kaala@hkalyO bhuvanaphalakE kreeDati praaNi-saaraya@h" ani bhartRhari subhaashitam - Time plays with beings on this gameboard called the world. (Not confirming either statements... just gurtocchindi.)
BTW, are you the same one from IBDB?
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Jai
Bewarse
Username: Jai
Post Number: 859
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.0.54.131
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 11:30 pm: | |
*naa uddESamlO* "Karma" gurinchi kaasta elaborate chEstaanu. (podduna haDaaviDilO vague gaa vraasaanu.)
"karta" is the being. "karma", however, doesn't belong to him. (It's not all that complex, in a way - you don't own all that you take up, do you?) Then who does "karma" belong to? In this world, there are only two *distinct* entities on the whole (you know what theory says this) - one is the God (parama-atma) and the other is the Being (jeeva-atma). All other entities are simply "non-existent" for practical purposes. (Now, this ending means that I am not limiting myself to the particular Two-Entity Theory.) So, the "karma" belongs to God. Hence, the Being cannot refrain from "karma" - he just has nothing else to do! When "karma" belongs to God, one need not feel bad to be in the "clutches of karma" - that's being with God Himself! Once the Being realizes this, he's no longer "bound" by karma, he's just "associated" with it, very much like jeeva-atma and parama-atma are! He's not supposed to be "attached" to it either, because it's nothing but his "Self"! Does one need to be attached to oneself? No is the answer, but we're! That's what makes Life miserable, in a way!
(If one doesn't want "God" to fit in this discussion, well, "Karma" belongs to yourself, which is then more important a presence-doubtable God, right?)
The Being is not "helpless", he's never helpless! When he feels helpless, he gets the confidence from outside or from within himself ("by way of God", theism adds).
quote:THIS BONDAGE STEMS FROM THE FEELING OF DOERSHIP OR I(the ego).
This is just "ego", I am referring to "Ego".
Brother II, "selfishness" is nothing to be despised, like "ego" or "hypocrisy"... it's just a confinement of oneself, antE! (paDitE giDitE jaali paDacchu!)
inkaa Emainaa reply ivvakunDaa marchipOtE please remind me!
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Karaharapriya
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Karaharapriya
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.12.201.86
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 11:12 pm: | |
btw thanks all for the interesting, enriching discussion |
Pakodi
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Pakodi
Post Number: 1352
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 24.226.90.113
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 11:11 pm: | |
inka edho cinema thread anukunna
A B C D F mee thatha mu... tapp |
Karaharapriya
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Karaharapriya
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.12.201.86
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 11:10 pm: | |
Guess I didn’t explain myself clearly…
Purusharthaanni marchipokundaa mana karma ni manam nirvartinchadame mana pani ane nenoo nammutaanu Sarangadhara gaaru..
mahabharatam lo dhramavyaadhudi katha telusanukuntaa meeku...
(teliyani vaaru ee link lo simple gaa kids kosam chepparu..adi choodandi if interested ...
http://www.indolink.com/Kidz/butcher.html)
tana kartavyaanni vadilesi spiritual enlightenment kosam adavulaku vellina kausikudi kannaa tana dharma nirvahana lo jeevahimsa chese butcher is better antaaru)
My 2 cents….
spirituality doesn't mean numb inactivity (gaali lo deepam petti devudaa..anadam) ...or escaping from worldly problems (mukku moosukoni tapassu chesukovadam)..nor should be ritual ridden (asalu pani maanesi pooojalu punaskaralu cheyadam..)
I believe it is the ability to see life as it is...and do all that we are allowed to do and leave the result to him.. Is this not the essence of what Krishna says in geeta (karmanye vaadhikaaraste…)
What I am not able to understand is chala mandi guruvulu maayanu jayinchandi..ani cheptuntaaru..idi saadhyamenaa…karma bandham nundi tappinchukogalama...are we free to do so?
I remember these lines from robert browning's poem
“...we are in god’s hand.
How strange now, looks the life he makes us lead!
So free we seem, so fettered fast we are!”
Meeru free will undani antunnaaru ...ade naku ardham kaavatam ledu 
Shakespeare annattu I believe “ all the world’s a stage...all men and women are mere players”
Meeru “God is not responsible for punishing or favoring a human being “ ani annaru...then who is ?
In the greater cosmic plan even we are not responsible for our own actions...are we?
Hmm,..may be I indirectly agree in a way to your statement...because antaa drama ani telisinappudu we do know director is not favoring or punishing anyone...'coz then there is no real sorrow or real happiness..its all just a part of the play.
sorry if i digressed from the main topic..
ps: google is great ...paina ichina link lo katha eppudo chadivaa..edo leela ga gurtundii..butcher brahmin story ani google lo typite sarasari pai link vachindi
|
Peacebrain
Bewarse
Username: Peacebrain
Post Number: 705
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 192.127.94.7
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 7:02 pm: | |
Emito janaalu 
Do not fuck my brains... |
Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 263
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 6:59 pm: | |
jai ji , indiainfo garu , karahara priya garu meeru continue cheyyandi discussion ni , meeta posts ki tomorrow morning reply istanu .
chakkati roopam vastundi ee discussion ki , atma paramatma to modalu ayyi karma yogam deggariki vacchindi .
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 262
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 6:54 pm: | |
karahara priya garu free will ledu kada annaru , the core essence of the karma yoganni marchipoyaru , manishi ki free will vundi kani not in the way you think andi .
purushartha gurinchi lord krishna antaga chepparu kada gita lo , kavalante meeku verses kuda istanu .
anta enduku meeru matrix choosara ,wachowiski brothers ide concept ni chakkga teraki ekkincharu.
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 261
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 6:47 pm: | |
karahara priya garu , naa latter posts referring to the verse in the gita okka sari choodandi .
bhagavantudu manishi ni aa sankella lo petta ledu , manava janma icchindi aa bhagavantuni telusukovataniki ,ayana kadu kada manaki ignorance kaliginchindi .
chala higher level thought raise chesaru , yes mana thoughts pre determined ne , it is like a wheel following its groove in a pre determined motion , the wheel of karma set in motion aeons ago .
asalu topic ki idi digression ani aa thread side vellatam ledu , meeku interest vunte tappakunda discuss cheddamu vere thread lo.
ika pote bhagavantuni anatam bhayam kadu andi .
please refer again to the gita verse and post okka sari chadavandi , god is not responsible for punishing a human being nor favouring him.
ANDUKE HIGHEST STAGE LO SAGES MAAKU PUNAYM VADDU PAPAM VADDU ANTARU.
both are spokes of an wheel called rebirth.
god is impartial , tane atma sakshi , sakshi gopaludu .
welcome to the db , nice id .
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Karaharapriya
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Karaharapriya
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 167.219.0.144
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 6:32 pm: | |
"If a being should "want" to come out of the "clutches of karma", why should the God put the being in those clutches in the first place? And then, if God wants those clutches to stay there, why should the being want to come out of those clutches anyway?"
this quote made me post in this discussion
jai garu naku kuda ee doubt undandi..kani inkaa perfect answer dorakaledu...
sarangadhara garu, manishi tana ignorance valla emi telusukoleka potunnadani annaru... mari aa ignorance kooda god's maaya vallane kadandi..
malli maaya nundi bayataki rammani antaarenti...
ekkado chadivanu even our thoughts are predetermined ani...mari maayanu jayinchamante elaa ? manaki freewill ledu kadaa...
btw jai garu nenu kooda srisri veerabhimani ni .. ee sandharbham lo aayana paata gurtuku vastundi..
bommanu chesi praanam posi aadevu neekidi vedukaa..
gaaradi chesi gundenu kosi navvevu ee vinta chaalika..
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Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 260
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:51 pm: | |
jai ji bhagavantudu does not favour one , nor punish one , nor is responsible for karma bondage anna daniki verse from the
gita chapter 5 , verse 15
nadatte kasyacit papam
na caiva sukrtam vibhuh
ajnanenavrtam jnanam
tena muhyanti jantavah
na--never; adatte--accepts; kasyacit--anyone's; papam--sin; na--nor; ca--also; eva--certainly; su-krtam--pious activities; vibhuh--the Supreme Lord; ajnanena--by ignorance; avrtam--covered; jnanam--knowledge; tena--by that; muhyanti--are bewildered; jantavah--the living entities.
Nor does the Supreme Spirit assume anyone's sinful or pious activities. Embodied beings, however, are bewildered because of the ignorance which covers their real knowledge.
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 1520
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.171
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:45 pm: | |
endehe idanthaaa ? intha chinna vayasulo meekidem poye kaalam babulu ? hayiga ensoyy sesukoka - ittantivi mattaddaniki kooda oka vayasu vasthundemo kada ? |
Sarangadhara
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Sarangadhara
Post Number: 259
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 149.169.170.14
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:39 pm: | |
jai ji
If a being should "want" to come out of the "clutches of karma", why should the God put the being in those clutches in the first place? And then, if God wants those clutches to stay there, why should the being want to come out of those clutches anyway?
dosent lord krishna say in the gita , it is not he who creates the bondages of karma , he is but the impartial seer present in all living things.
it is man who forgetting his original place , nature , attributing qualities to objects , attributing doership to himself entangles himself in karma .
edo janma ki partly realize avutadu jeevudu kani maya ni jayinche shakti tanaki poortiga vundaka povacchu.
appudu prahlada varada ani pilustadu , deenilo bhagavantuni dosham ledu kada .
About the usage of the phrase "utter helplessness": If the creation of God Himself is utterly helpess, what can help the beings? Just God?! Isn't it like the Guru who doesn't teach his students all that he knows? Only Gurus with selfish motives would do that, and God is not selfish! He doesn't make his creation "helpless" just to keep him in a higher position!
utter helplessness anna padam enduku vadalsi vacchindi ante , jeevudu aa time ki konta gnanam vastundi kani due to the tremendous pressure of the previous janma vasanas(which force the person out of strength of habit to commit the same mistakes again and again) .
mumukshuvu (one who is aspiring for moksha) in the words of swami vivekananda should possess one single quality a great desire for liberation , evaranna mana tala ni neela lopala petti vunchite manishi enta struggle avutado survival ki anta vundali ani swami vari opinion.
bhagavantuni ella velala jeevudiki nija swaroopam and path gurinchi various ways lo teliya chestune vuntadu kani tana own karma bandham lo chikkukunna jeevudu adi vinaledu .
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Indiainfo
Desanike Pedda Bewarse
Username: Indiainfo
Post Number: 2116
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 130.243.43.216
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:32 pm: | |
god's creation kada perfect ga undali ani antunnavu.appudu manaki ee theories tho avasaram undadhu. ee srusthi lo nava rasalu undali.
//God doesn't create utterly helpless beings
i do accept with you but god will create such a way that human being at some point of stage will be in utter helplessness by which he will come to know the importance of paramatma.
jai sodara aa selfish anedi kuda god creation ani marchipotunnavu. kakapote ikkada god create chesindi perfect ani cheppataniki ee selfish word correct kaademo ani naa abhiprayam.
any way naa midi midi gnanam tho tappu daari pattistunnanu ani emo anipistundi.
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Jai
Bewarse
Username: Jai
Post Number: 858
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.0.54.131
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:21 pm: | |
quote:naa view enti ante manishi utter helplessness satge ki compulsory ga ravali. appude bagavuntudi importance telusukogalugutadu.
"baagunDaTam" (nacchaTam) kannaa "perfect gaa unDaTam" mukhyam God's creation, kada! adi perfectly perfect, I'd opine! kanuka, baagundaa lEdaa anEdi important kaadu.. "baagu" anna highly relative term ikkaDa fit avadEmO ani naa feeling!
quote: nuvvu cheppindi nuvve contradict chestunnattu undi.
Contradiction ekkaDundi, II sOdaraa? I said, "God doesn't create utterly helpless beings!" antE kada?
quote:nuvvu ikkada selfish ane word enduku use chesavi arthamu kaledu.
tanaki telisinadi, tana daggara unnadi mottamgaa inkokariki ivvani vaaDini "selfish" annaanu. (I didn't say being selfish is wrong.)
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Indiainfo
Desanike Pedda Bewarse
Username: Indiainfo
Post Number: 2113
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 130.243.43.216
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:06 pm: | |
jai sodara,
mathemetics and probability annavu...i think it's typo error.
About the usage of the phrase "utter helplessness": If the creation of God Himself is utterly helpess, what can help the beings? Just God?! Isn't it like the Guru who doesn't teach his students all that he knows? Only Gurus with selfish motives would do that, and God is not selfish! He doesn't make his creation "helpless" just to keep him in a higher position!
jai sodara pania cheppinavi nuvvu cheppindi nuvve contradict chestunnattu undi. probably nenu tappuga artamu chesukuni untanu.
naa view enti ante manishi utter helplessness satge ki compulsory ga ravali. appude bagavuntudi importance telusukogalugutadu. kani nuvvu ikkada selfish ane word enduku use chesavi arthamu kaledu.hope you clers them in your next post. |
Jai
Bewarse
Username: Jai
Post Number: 855
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.0.54.131
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:04 pm: | |
quote:Fate is the like of a probability axis - what has the probability of 1 happens. Probability is based on statistical information, of course. These Statistics would include "previous karma", but till how far (behind) in time axis is beyond my idea (not just perception).
An addendum: Probability can CHANGE, and so can fate! What takes it to change the probability in terms of fate is beyond my reach (of language), but "effort" is more like it (however vague the word is).
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Jai
Bewarse
Username: Jai
Post Number: 854
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.0.54.131
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 5:02 pm: | |
quote:I am mixing Mathematics and Probability...
Mea Culpa! Mathematics and Philosophy anabOyaanu. (Thanks to II for pointing.)
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Jai
Bewarse
Username: Jai
Post Number: 852
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 65.0.54.131
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 4:54 pm: | |
quote:A person does prapatti to the Lord when he realizes his utter helplessness to come out of the clutches of his past karma <skip> the reason behind the cycle of birth and death is tied to the fruits of the karma of the jeevatma
Having not wanting to enter a discussion on "karma", "past karma", "past life", "rebirth", etc. I didn't enter/elaborate this discussion in those directions. ippuDu kontainaa tappElaa lEdu. Stating that I am not overriding what's said in Bhagavad-Gita, I say this:
If a being should "want" to come out of the "clutches of karma", why should the God put the being in those clutches in the first place? And then, if God wants those clutches to stay there, why should the being want to come out of those clutches anyway?
My opinion about "Karma" and the related stuff is this: Fate is the like of a probability axis - what has the probability of 1 happens. Probability is based on statistical information, of course. These Statistics would include "previous karma", but till how far (behind) in time axis is beyond my idea (not just perception).
(I know, I know, I am mixing Mathematics and Probability... but while giving an analogy, I am making it simpler for my mind's perception, by bringing Mathematics here, because my mind can perceive it better and easier.)
About the usage of the phrase "utter helplessness": If the creation of God Himself is utterly helpess, what can help the beings? Just God?! Isn't it like the Guru who doesn't teach his students all that he knows? Only Gurus with selfish motives would do that, and God is not selfish! He doesn't make his creation "helpless" just to keep him in a higher position!
I am only presenting my views here. I wish the healthy discussion continues, and would invite input from others too!
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Sarangadhara
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 4:37 pm: | |
prapatti and ego meeda vunna thought thread ni continue chestu .
Prapatti is the acceptance of lack of ego and accepting the Lord as the supreme everything for the soul and raising yourhands towards him like a fallen child.A person does prapatti to the Lord when he realizes his utter helplessness to come out of the clutches of his past karma ,prapatti is to be associated with a lot of love .
complete surrender to the lord leaves no place for ego within the devotees mind ,he does each of his worldly responsibilities as duty and service to the lord .
the reason why most of the sects hold this to be a powerful method to salvation is , the reason behind the cycle of birth and death is tied to the fruits of the karma of the jeevatma .
THIS BONDAGE STEMS FROM THE FEELING OF DOERSHIP OR I(the ego).
prapatti removes these bonds by surrendering the deed and motive to the supreme lord himself .
alanti vallu chala rare , and most men progress in steps towards complete surrender to the lord .
in my opinion would describe prapatti as the anguished cry to surrender to the almighty as a cry from a child to its father.
jai ji willing to discuss it further ,ego lying within god laga description paina.
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Jai
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 4:31 pm: | |
quote:it is just at the time of kaivalya the appearance of the world to the seer's eyes changes
Changes from what to what? What various theories tell annadi cheppinanduku thanks but meeru yE theory ni support chEstunnaTTu? Or mee theory EmiTi, after seeing all these theories deeper than I could/I ever did?
quote:infinite nunchi edi teesina jodinchina migiledi aa infinite ne
"1-1 = 1" annaaDu deennE SreeSree (in the same place where he said "1+1 = 1" - a story by SreeSree titled "charamaraatri"... published in a book of his stories, the title of the book being the same as the title of this story.)
Complete is always Complete. Or Complete never tends to zero. deenni Mathematics lO apply cheyyacchu ani nEnU anE vaaDini. ...kaanee, philosophy tO kalapaTam Mathematics ki promotion-O demotion-O teleelEdu! 
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Indiainfo
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 4:30 pm: | |
sarangadara garu,
late ga vachina latest ga vacharu
first of all i would like to thank you for sharing info with us. meeru cheppinattu i got some part of answer from jai post.
waiting for your next post.
|
Sarangadhara
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 4:13 pm: | |
ika pote indiainfo garu adigina question ki naa side nunchi cheptanu , partly answer jai ji iccharu just wish to put things in a different perspective .
--------------------------------------------------
generally we humans believe that we are different from god. when ever we come to know about jeevatma i.e. when we come out of maya we come to know that god is not different from us and we attain moksha(i.e. paramatma is attained.)
-------------------------------------------------
malli kasta religion loki digression , ee question ni philosophy side nunchi kuda answer cheyyochu kani hinduism lo various sages deenini baga explain chesaru annadi naa opinion.
prati manishi lonu bhagavantudu vuntadu annadi bharata desham lo prati pillavadu ki telisi vuntundi , adi mana sanskruti goppa tanam kani ide debate higher levels ki teesuku velte , various explanations vunnayi .
deenini oka sanskrit verse to illustrate cheyyali ani vundi .
Om poornam adah poornam idam
poornat poornam udachyate
poornasya poornam adaya
poornam eva'vashish-yate
Om shantih, shantih, shantih
a beautiful concept that is related to infinity in mathematics , deeniki swayana jeeyar swami varu icchina simple explanation , infinite nunchi edi teesina jodinchina migiledi aa infinite ne , ante aa parama purushudu bhagavantudu , ela ayite deepam nunchi inko deepam veligiste original deepam kanti ela taggado , bhagavantuni shakti kuda alantide.
bhagavantuni dasavataralulu deeniki nidarsanam , archa moorti ki kuda ide moola karanam , same principle ni manishi ki apply cheste prati manishi lonu oka spark of the divine vunnate , all sects of hindusim agree on this aspect but difference vacchedi , manishi kaivalyamu appudu bhagavantuni lo kalisipotadu , ante is he same as god at that time , or aa time lo kuda tanaki separate entity vuntunda .
ee question ni proper ga answer cheyyagalano ledo kuda teliyadu since it is a question of higher level and of much debate between great scholars , naaku telisindi cheptanu edaina tappulu vunte manninchagalaru.
}
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Sarangadhara
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 4:01 pm: | |
jai ji mee post choosanu , indiainfo garu meeru adigina daniki samadhanam party jai gari answer lo vundi but still naa view point cheptanu .
1.the moment the jeevatma sees the world to be as it is ( do not which to get into the question of whether the world exists for now) the maya is removed.
enta vaddanukunnaa, meeru parantheses peTTinaa aDagaalanipinchindi "What is 'is'"?
purely theistic view point nunchi cheptunnanu andi ,this debate has raged since centuries between the followers of advaita and visistha advaita and dwaita , for the time being only advaita and visistha advaita view points cheptanu .
advaitamunaku mayavadam ani kuda peru vundi , of course idi dwaitaniki kuda vundi , the reason being adi shankara is quite firm in his opinion that the world is nothing but a huge dream , a epic dream envisioned on the giant canvas , the painter being the almighty himself , the great seer is of the opinion and does state it quite firmly in various of his works that the world is a mere illusion .
whereas visistha advaita does not say the world is a illusion ,the great ramanuja was of the opinion the world is not at all a illusion , it is just at the time of kaivalya the appearance of the world to the seer's eyes changes .
ika pote meeru icchina meaning of kaivalya is absolutely right , nice way of putting it .
ika pote last lines lo marchipoyanu discussion manadi philosophy side nunchi sagutundi ani ,yes definetly deenini philosophy side nunchi discuss cheddamu .
sorry for the late post , was a little busy .
this is turning out to be a good discussion }
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Pimp
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 3:58 pm: | |
thx jai and manisi..
i was asking for the meaning of the name only
 |
Manishi
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 3:57 pm: | |
Jai mama,
Wasn't Sarangadhara the son of king, Raja Raja Narendra??. If I remember correctly narendra orders to chop off his son's hands and legs even though he loved him dearly. |
Jai
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 3:45 pm: | |
quote:sarangadhara ante???
manishi evaru anaitE naakU teleedu, except from great posts such as these! Meaning ayitE "saarangamunu (jinkanu) dharinchina vaaDu" (stree ani kooDaa anukOvacchu), anTE SivuDu.
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Pimp
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 3:13 pm: | |
sarangadhara ante???  |
Brad
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 1:17 pm: | |
pipty
Irugu disti, Porugu disti, Bewarse disti -- tu tu tu |
Indiainfo
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jai mama,
nuvvu badhapadaku. nenu chadivanu. that was really good post. nenu kotta kotta words telusukuntunna.
jai mama naa post 2086 emanna arthamu ayyinda neeku. |
Jai
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Monday, August 02, 2004 - 12:59 pm: | |
evarU chadavalEdaa?! 
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Jai
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 8:33 pm: | |
A very nice debate, Sarangadhara gaarU! Whether I am intellectually parallel to you or not, I am enjoying this discussion a lot! (nEnu meetO ee tarkam cheyyaTam oka rakamaina saahasamE!)
i am assuming by theism you do not mean religion
True, sir! Religion is only a way of life. Theism is not about life, I'd again present my view, it's about God and belief/non-belief in Him.
but isnt philosophy the work of the human brain (not a matter of faith) to some extent subject to the conditioning received by the philosopher which indirectly means it is influenced by religion or theism or any other beleif system.
Partly true, IMHO, and that's why I could talk of philosophy without formal knowledge in any of the sects of the same! And, at least partly, my thinking is influenced by religion, yes again, but what's my religion? Hinduism, of course, and what's Hinduism? What does it include and what does it not? Almost everything under the sky is defined and declared in Hinduism (This is a big discussion in itself!), I feel, and thus would put it that I am not "confined" by Hinduism but I "expanded" into the space of Hinduism in presenting my views, to some extent, yes! Again, Hinduism isn't theism, it's a way of life! And, Philosophy talks about Life, and so it has to stem out of Life to be closest to what it talks! It cannot just spring out of Elsewhere, I'd add, and thus is very aptly related to the "work of one's brain".
it is just my opinion , maybe the question does require a theistic viewpoint
So be it, the more ways the merrier!
part of mee views ayn rand writings nunchi influence ayi vuntayi anipinchindi , definetly true without ego the human race will not survive but some scholars have a different view.
Well, yes, Ayn Rand did let me "express" what I read from SreeSree, Vivekananda, and others. Also, attribute a part of my understanding of things about ego to "Upendra", the movie.  Scholars do have a different view, and that makes them "scholars" in the literal sense - I don't have a scholastic background in philosophy, I admit!
most bhakti paths such as the vaishnava tradition do beleive in "prapatti " complete surrender to the almighty and just leading one's life as an service to the almighty or duty. mari alanti vallaki ego to pani vundi antara.I am a Vaishnavite, though I didn't sacrifice my life to the Lord aTuvanTi vaariki, when done sincerely of course, the Ego lies in the God! They do it because they cannot refrain from doing! anTE, their Self lies there. This is what I'd opine.
just as in the darkness ones senses get clouded and we mistake a rope for a snake in the darkness , the senses clouded by the darkness of maya attribute properties to objects (which in the first place did not have those properties).A very good analogy indeed! "We never know", I'd say! I don't know if I feel this way because of "maaya", and same with you or anyone else! So, I'd not discuss "maaya" much ("maayanTaavU? idi mithyanTaavU?" ani pai nunchi maa gugguruvu SreeSree moTTikaayalu vEstunnaaru already naaku!)
the moment the jeevatma sees the world to be as it is ( do not which to get into the question of whether the world exists for now) the maya is removed.
enta vaddanukunnaa, meeru parantheses peTTinaa aDagaalanipinchindi "What is 'is'"?
yes ego is the most potent arm of maya which creates this delusion
IMHO, maaya makes one presume that ego is something else than it actually is! That probably makes it a potent arm in the field.
ika pote anntiki kante mee last paragraph lo kaivalyam appudu emi jarugutundi rasaru
chinna clarification: nEnu ekkaDaa theism teesukuraalEdu... nEnu vraasindi kaivalyam gurinchi kaadu... Okay, literal gaa, etymological gaa choostE "kaivalyamu = Oneness" (kEvalamu = only one, hence "kaivalyamu"), but nEnu maaTlaaDutunnadi religion cheppina kaivalyam gurinchi kaadu, philosophy cheppina kaivalyam gurinchi.
Note: Disclaimer from my previous post still holds good!
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
Andagaadu
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 3:00 pm: | |
>>andagaadu mama emi arthamu kakapoina edo postalani ala annavu kada
idi matram 100% nijame mama kaani adi nee post kada ani ala posta edo oka rakanga discussion modalettali kada mari eppudu ela sootipoti prashanalu adagoddu
NONE OF US IS AS SMART AS ALL OF US |
Indiainfo
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 2:58 pm: | |
freak mama nenu kusalame.
andagaadu mama emi arthamu kakapoina edo postalani ala annavu kada |
Andagaadu
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 2:53 pm: | |
II mama evarni adagala neeku compliment istunna
NONE OF US IS AS SMART AS ALL OF US |
Freak
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 2:52 pm: | |
 enkatoo elavunnav
maava count 48....jagratha |
Indiainfo
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 2:49 pm: | |
andagaadu mama everni nuvvu adigindi |
Andagaadu
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mama emi seppavu
NONE OF US IS AS SMART AS ALL OF US |
Indiainfo
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 2:42 pm: | |
jai and sarangadhara garu thanks for your posts.
sarangadhara garu,
here is my point of view :
generally we humans believe that we are different from god. when ever we come to know about jeevatma i.e. when we come out of maya we come to know that god is not different from us and we attain moksha(i.e. paramatma is attained.)
in that case as jai said ego supports the definitions that you have given to jeevatma and paramatma. But if we take your explanation for 2nd point related to jai answer i am confused now.
can you please explain me if i am correct in my thinking and also your views regarding this.
|
Sarangadhara
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 12:24 pm: | |
jai ji , thank you for responding to the thread and sharing your valuable views .
meeru rasindi chadivanu , have a slightly different view on some of the points ,the points
i i differ on are
1.Theism is something about outside the world, while philosophy is about the life in this world,
i am assuming by theism you do not mean religion since often religion differs from theism theism is a common characteristic of religions, but it isn't a necessary characteristic. When theism does appear, there still needs to be other features in order to have a religion.
do agree that philosophy is related to life in this world , but isnt philosophy the work of the human brain (not a matter of faith) to some extent subject to the conditioning received by the philosopher which indirectly means it is influenced by religion or theism or any other beleif system.
when faced with the unknown man has always tried to know it in terms of the known or tends to search for recognizable patterns , so the part of the question and answer (as seen by the person) tends to carry shades of his previous conditioning or faith or religion.
it is just my opinion , maybe the question does require a theistic viewpoint .
would defintely like to know your views on this further.
2.“ego” is what keeps oneself very much in this world. If one is not egoistic, one cannot “feel” or “exist”, or even “exist the feelings” or “feel the existence”! Ego is not selfishness or self-centric nature. Ego is oneness – the true belief in “one” existence – the essence of most of the world’s philosophy
part of mee views ayn rand writings nunchi influence ayi vuntayi anipinchindi , definetly true without ego the human race will not survive but some scholars have a different view .
purely relgion point of view nunchi ivi cheptunnanu , most bhakti paths such as the vaishnava tradition do beleive in "prapatti " complete surrender to the almighty and just leading one's life as an service to the almighty or duty.
mari alanti vallaki ego to pani vundi antara .
3.Everyone is a hypocrite, more or less. And, hypocrisy is not just a property that hurts others, very much like ego
i would agree 200% on this view of your jai ji , very true .
4.We must, rather, start at “Problems do exist.”
very true again , they do exist .
5.“problems” exist because of “desires”
true again , the core of the philosophy of the oriental religions .
6.Equating ourselves with our desires is the famous and debatable maaya! Once we realize this and hold our “ego” higher than our “desire” and not worry/care about “Hypocrisy”, the maaya is shattered for good!
slightly different view vundi andi naaku ikkada , again taking of the visistha advaita traditions one famous analogy is used to explain this .meeku telise vuntundi .
raju ---sarpa ----bhranti
just as in the darkness ones senses get clouded and we mistake a rope for a snake in the darkness , the senses clouded by the darkness of maya attribute properties to objects (which in the first place did not have those properties).
the moment the jeevatma sees the world to be as it is ( do not which to get into the question of whether the world exists for now) the maya is removed.
yes ego is the most potent arm of maya which creates this delusion , would like to hear your views on this too jai ji .
ika pote anntiki kante mee last paragraph lo kaivalyam appudu emi jarugutundi rasaru , matter chala vundi dani paina , inko post lo post chestanu.
it is a pleasure to know your views and share mine.
"Tamasoma Jyotirgamaya" Lead me From darkness to Light |
Jai
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Post Number: 825
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Votes: 0 (Vote!) | | Posted on Saturday, July 31, 2004 - 8:20 am: | |
My response here: (Be warned - it's a 3-page long essay!)
http://www2.latech.edu/~kch008/Misc/Philosophy1.pd f
http://www2.latech.edu/~kch008/Misc/Philosophy1.ht m
Questions, comments, clarifications, corrections, colloborations, elaborations, ...everything is welcome!
Trying for reforms is better than ignoring a problem or blindly destroying the source of problem. |
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