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Message |
    
Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4243
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.171
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 4:13 pm: |    |
>> The symbolism here is that the director wants to convey that the Nameless hero (Jet Li) moved at an incredible speed - faster than the falling water droplets -
oh yes, I do. very well infact. I think you are confusing symbolism with smart-aleck ideas. symbolism is when a miyaan maqbool sees red blood even when there's none ONLY because he has murder on his mind ( this scene from an eminently better movie Maqbool ). Hero's story is straight fwd but the director chose the styles favored by the likes of QT to make it more interestnig. I ahve no problems with that. but, he goes one mile too far as we approach the end of the saga and it was evident he ran out of his ideas. it's a visual extravaganza, I will admit but havent we seen so many of them already. that fight over water when the lady dies, wasnt that purely for the sake of showing off ? |
Smart
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Smart
Post Number: 893
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 207.199.2.34
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 4:08 pm: | |
>> Maybe if you look at the symbolism rather than the literal meaning, this movie would be more beautiful. The narrative of this movie is all about symbolism.
Will watch it again with an artistic soul.
I appreciate your constructive arguements.
 |
Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 97
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 209.211.190.223
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 3:59 pm: | |
Chalam babai..
I have not gone back on my statements.. I have reworded it because you were taking the negative meaning of the word 'show-off'. The meaning I had in mind for show-off was 'portrayal/depiction/expression' and not 'posing'.
This movie's narrative is symbolic mama, so, you cannot take it in a literal sense. For example, mana puraanaalalO, when someone says 'Anjani puthrudu Vaayu vEga manO vEgaana payaninchi Lankaa nagari chErukunaadu' ani antE, we should take the symbolic meaning that Hanuman reached Lanka in quick time, rather than frowning at the expression 'manO vEgam (speed of thought)'.. This is the kind of symbolism that is depicted in the movie's outlandish fight sequences and visuals. For example, in the fight with Sky, you see that at the moment Jet Li lunges towards Sky with his sword, we are shown frozen water droplets and Li's sword piercing through the droplets and into his opponent. Here the importance thing to note is not the advanced computer graphics and camera techniques used to freeze-frame the water droplets.. that would be looking from a literal sense. The symbolism here is that the director wants to convey that the Nameless hero (Jet Li) moved at an incredible speed - faster than the falling water droplets - and this helped him land the killer blow to his opponent. Consider this a poetic depiction of the battle and not a documentary like re-enactment of the sword fight.
Maybe if you look at the symbolism rather than the literal meaning, this movie would be more beautiful. The narrative of this movie is all about symbolism.
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Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4239
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.171
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 3:19 pm: | |
>> I guess the word 'show-off' is throwing you off course
I wish mama. now that you have tapered off on your earlier position (stmnts), I have nothing more to comment. ob'ly you liked the movie but I thought it sucked towards the end. its just another movie that tries to be smart and aesthetic, and it does succeed to some extent but it is, by no means an artistic extravaganza. IMO.
poetry by definition is a wordy expression of one's feelings. something done to just show-off one's prowess can never be true art form. same reason why arundhoti roy sucks while rk narayan is a delight to read. |
Baba
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Baba
Post Number: 35
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 68.49.136.206
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 2:43 pm: | |
I watched BigFish
I enjoyed the movie. I thought the director wanted to make a feel good movie.. something like Forrest Gump.
The narration though slow was interesting and I enjoyed the movie.
 |
Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 96
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 209.211.190.223
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 2:27 pm: | |
Chalam babai..
I guess the word 'show-off' is throwing you off course. I use 'show-off' in the sense that art's goal is to 'show (off ??) your perception of things' or to use your own words, it's goal is to 'express your perception of things, concpets etc.'
Art can be subtle or true-to-life, art can also be an exaggeration of reality. An example of a true-to-life art is the movie 'Schindler's List'. It is a depiction of all the horror and gore of the holocaust.
On the other hand, you can have an artform like 'poetry' which is seldom subtle. Poetry is often 'eulogistic', 'romantic' etc. Would you then deny that poetry is an art form?? In my opinion (for what it's worth) I felt the picturization of 'Hero' to be almost visual poetry. Just as poetry is not everyone's cuppa tea, the movie 'Hero' appeals to some while not to many others.
It is OK for OUR heros to leap onto the top of a building in one backward flip, and to jump to an fro on the heads of gundas.. and all this absurdity in a social movie.. (our movies of the early 80s). It is even acceptible for us when the hero fends off lorries full of sword weilding henchmen.. but we find it absurd to accept movies like CTHD and Hero which portray a legend or mythological fantasia.. 
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Smart
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Smart
Post Number: 852
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 207.199.2.34
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 12:05 pm: | |
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Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4210
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.171
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 1:25 am: | |
>> if you really are drunk as you say
how very convenient !! wot do they say in hinterland ? one who's drunk ( in what is a question that eludes unreceptive souls) always spoketh truth. thus spake masters, thus spake zen.
>> showing off your visualization or understanding of something
art is 'perceived' by some as show-off maybe. true art is about 'expression' and there's a gorge of a difference there.
>> All art is a deliberate machination at some level.
couldnt be farther from truth. the amount of ambiguity in the statement cloaks this in suspended ether.
nahin beta. true art aint that. it's an expression as I have just expressed. |
Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 95
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 66.176.95.129
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2004 - 12:11 am: | |
Hustler babai..
True.. this movie is based on a true story, or rather a legend of the nameless hero. But sometimes, plain narrative is not as inspiring or interesting or even entertaining as a sugar-coated version of a legend.
Strangely, my statement above is the central theme of the other movie I mentioned in the initiating thread: Big Fish. Consider 'The Hero' as a feel-good, inspiring movie made to remind the Chinese people of the sacrifices their people made 2000 years ago, and the suffering they endured before their country was formed out of warring kingdoms by a war-mongering Emperor. I bet if this movie were made using plain narrative, it would not have had met with this much success and critical acclaim.
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Hustler
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Hustler
Post Number: 380
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 69.210.173.30
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 11:20 pm: | |
RV bhai..
Art is also presentation of facts and that is very much valid in this context. The movie is a real story and it should have been presented as it is but the director made it otherwise otherwise(as chalam noted).
The movie started off well but towards the end it was pretty boring. I was almost frustrated by the lenght of the scenes. mundane narration of the movie and too long fight sequences were a huge turn off for me. The crux of the movie was the climax( jet li's execution) but by that time i was too damn sleepy to feel any empathy and emotion towards that scene.
The One |
Amar
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Amar
Post Number: 276
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 24.13.70.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 11:05 pm: | |
some other movies where color plays a major role in movie making are
1. Eyes Wide Shut
2. Swimming Pool
3. Godfather(ofcourse its the lightning and not the color but i took some freedom to include it here)
4. I guess most of Kubrick movies have color importance like in 2001, full metal jacket. |
Amar
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Amar
Post Number: 275
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 24.13.70.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:59 pm: | |
RV
i didnot see hero yet but by reading ur review i am guessing it might be of the level of Lost Highway where color is used to express an emotion.
i will update my comments after watching it  |
Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 94
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 66.176.95.129
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:42 pm: | |
Chalam babai.. if you really are drunk as you say, maybe the alcohol is playing games with your brain cells..
Art is supposed to be a showoff as in 'showing off your visualization or understanding of something'. If art is not a showoff, why would an artist take the pain of painstakingly bringing his ideas to life?? All art is a deliberate machination at some level.
Proud member of 'Head-fi.org' - the best online community for hi-fi audio enthusiasts on the internet - Check it out. |
Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 93
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 66.176.95.129
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:32 pm: | |
Amar babi 
Which category would you put 'Hero' in?? With 'Pleasantville' or 'Meenaxi' or 'Lost Highway' ??
Proud member of 'Head-fi.org' - the best online community for hi-fi audio enthusiasts on the internet - Check it out. |
Amar
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Amar
Post Number: 274
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 24.13.70.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:26 pm: | |
watch "Pleasantville" of tobey mcguire, if u want to appreciate color as a character in a movie.
watch "menaaxi A Tale of three cities" to see how colors can make you uneasy with their "colorness" .
watch David Lynch's Lost Highway to view color expressing an emotion.
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Idiot
Bewarse
Username: Idiot
Post Number: 1704
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 151.204.249.195
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:01 pm: | |
mana seema cinemalu kuda ikkada release seste bagundu
O santi gadi  katha |
Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4208
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.171
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 10:00 pm: | |
>> Art is supposed to be a showoff.
waaaaow .. hang on dude. what was THAAAT ? art is a celebration of a rather unexplainable desire of humans. it's like the fourth dimension , it just happens, its an outlet to a rather complex interaction of chemicals in our friking brains. evolution explains fucking, hunting and every other thing but not art. show me where. right now. from anywhere. darwin to gun, germs and steel. any where. pleaaaase. i am drunk. yes, i am. but i am not sure. pray continue
deliberate machinations with an express desire to show-off aint art. thats fraud .. |
Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 92
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 66.176.95.129
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 9:53 pm: | |
Smart mama.. I don't remember the colors orange, black etc having as much importance in the narrative compared to red, white and blue.. 
Anyway, it's cool if not everyone loves this movie.. after all, as they say, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. Maybe I identified with something about the movie that made me say 'WOW !!'.. if others did not feel that way, that's just how life is !!
I believe I already wrote enough about this movie. If anyone else is interested in discussing more about this movie, we can discuss our ideas and interpretations.
Chalam babai.. aren't all movies made to impress?? I guess that is the one basic goal of art.. to impress you either positively and in some cases negatively. Art is supposed to be a showoff.. be it subtlely or over-the-top. Hero is an over-the-top artistic statement.
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Smart
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Smart
Post Number: 849
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 207.199.2.34
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 8:25 pm: | |
Thanks for your reasoning mama, all your points are valid and the success of the movie proves that.
You gave a very good reasoning about the use of colors Red, Blue and White.
Also, I would be interested to know if there is any reasoning behind using the colors like orange, yellow, black etc....
I know you should not look for logical reasoning for such kind of movies as they are mythological fantasies.
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Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4168
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.171
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 8:12 pm: | |
ade kadaa RV mama. the movie was made to 'impress' and that's grating.
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Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 91
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 66.176.95.129
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 8:03 pm: | |
Smart:
Hero.....
-> edureduru nilabadi, oohallo fight chesukuni, evadu gelustado oohallo decide chesesi, final ga okadu okadini eseyyatam
-> different versions ni different colors lo choopinchadam. variety kosam kaakapote antaaa oke color lo undatam enti na bonda?
-> arrows ni pavada to aapatam
Smart babai..
Anni cinemaloo mana Seema cinemaala laagaa choosthE yetlaa??
The gist behind the color-coordinated flashbacks is that we are told three different versions or interpretations of the events surrounding the killing of the 3 assassins.
The first version told by the hero is obvious lie and hence the choice of the color RED since RED symbolizes fiery heat (here, the hero's fiery desire for revenge).
The king figures out the inconsistency in the hero's narrative and he then sort of 'guesses' what would have happened. This explains the choice of the color BLUE which is a color that indicates Perspective. In other words the flashback with BLUE colors indicates the king's PERSPECTIVE of what had happened.
The last version of the flashback is shown in WHITE since this version IS THE TRUTH. White symbolizes truth, wholeness and completeness, and hence the choice of this color when the actual truth is revealed to the king.
Inka nuvvu cheppE oohallO fight chEsukOvatam antaava, it is a poetic depiction of the hero and his opponent's respect for each other and their unwillingness to harm the other great warrior. Finally, the hero says he killed his opponent in one swift move because he values his duty towards protecting the king more than his respect toward his opponent.
Arrows ni paavada thO aapatam, gaali lo yegaratam, water meedha nadavatam, bouncing off the top of water and treetops.. all these are exaggerated depictions of the super-human status that martial-artists were given in ancient Chinese history. For ancient Chinese, the martial-artist is almost a demi-god, and hence they were supposed to be capable of performing super-human feats like the above.
Ainaa, kanti choopu thO trains ni aapatam, kurcheelu move cheyyatam (PBN), bhujam meedha manishi ni vEsukuni speeding train kannaa fast ga parigetti thappinchukOvatam (Chiru, in the movie Iddaru mithrulu).. ilaanti exaggerations vunna mana cinemaalu choodagaa lEnidhi, HERO's fights are not so bad for a mythological/legendary movie..
Finally, all I want to say is that movie making is as much an artform as it is supposed to be a means of time-pass entertainment.. Anni movies ni okElaa choosthE kashtam, and it is unfair on the moviemakers.
Proud member of 'Head-fi.org' - the best online community for hi-fi audio enthusiasts on the internet - Check it out. |
Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4035
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.170
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 7:36 pm: | |
>> oke color lo undatam enti na bonda?
>> mana seema cinemalu kuda ikkada release seste bagundu
 |
Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4034
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.170
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 7:35 pm: | |
>> aa scene ledani seppu
enduku leduuuuu. antha level lo ledu kaani edo undi.
inthakee cellular choosava ?
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Smart
Kurra Bewarse
Username: Smart
Post Number: 825
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 207.199.2.34
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 6:53 pm: | |
Hero.....
-> edureduru nilabadi, oohallo fight chesukuni, evadu gelustado oohallo decide chesesi, final ga okadu okadini eseyyatam
-> different versions ni different colors lo choopinchadam. variety kosam kaakapote antaaa oke color lo undatam enti na bonda?
-> arrows ni pavada to aapatam
konni cinema lu enduku hit avutayo assalu ardham kaadu.
mana seema cinemalu kuda ikkada release seste bagundu
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Brad
Bewarse ke Bewarse!
Username: Brad
Post Number: 6459
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 204.99.118.9
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 6:23 pm: | |
>>CTHD lo unna soul-level involvement deentlo ille.
aa scene ledani seppu..
Irugu disti, Porugu disti, Bewarse disti -- tu tu tu |
Chalam
Vooriki Bewarse
Username: Chalam
Post Number: 4017
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 148.87.1.170
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 6:10 pm: | |
hero first 1.30 hr bane undi, tharvatha started trobull. tried to punch in the same thing in diff. color combos throughout. by the end of it, someone shouted 'wtf 's happening here'. naaku alage anipinchindi.
CTHD lo unna soul-level involvement deentlo ille.
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Brad
Bewarse ke Bewarse!
Username: Brad
Post Number: 6448
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 204.99.118.9
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 5:46 pm: | |
Big fish bore mama.. naaku nachha ledu....
Irugu disti, Porugu disti, Bewarse disti -- tu tu tu |
Andhraabbai
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Andhraabbai
Post Number: 7
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 205.228.101.60
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 11:52 am: | |
I saw Hero recently. It is a good movie. Specially Visuals are stunning.
I liked the movie though i am not comfortable watching people fly in air |
Raghuvamsi
Pilla Bewarse
Username: Raghuvamsi
Post Number: 90
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 209.211.190.223
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2004 - 11:28 am: | |
I was treated to a wonderful movie fest last weekend when I saw two of the most wonderfully imaginative, artistically beautiful movies that can be called 'Exemplary Cinematic Achievements' of modern cinema.. These movies are
1) HERO: This movie has as much panache and flair as it has beautiful color-coordinated eye-candy. From the starting frame to the ending frame you are treated to poetic visuals showcasing intricately choreographed martial arts sequences and gorgeous landscapes of Chinese mainland.. Even though the film dialogue is in Chinese (or was it Mandarin??) with English subtitles, the visuals are so good they can convey the story to a deaf audience. This is truly a monumental achievement in movie making. The fluidity with which the director's vision is conveyed by the breathtaking photography (by Christopher Doyle) and the lead actors' performances is simply PERFECT. It is an example of a movie where every single person involved in the project appears to have lived-and-breathed the story and the vision of the director, and the final product speaks for itself. Every aspect of this movie appears to be in the right place at the right time, and to the right extent. The music is fantastic, composed by the great Tan-Dun of Coruching Tiger Hidden Dragon fame.. and at times, some of the tunes appear eerily similar to the CTHD score, particulary during the fight scenes.
This movie will find its place among the all-time great movies list of 21st Century.
My rating: 5/5.
2) BIG FISH: This is another movie by the incredible Tim Burton.. This movie is an example of beautiful storytelling.. I was always fascinated by Tim Burton's unique artistic worlds (as evidenced by his work in the movies Batman Returns, Planet of the Apes and Sleepy Hollow.) This guys is a maverick artist with a wonderful yet weird imagination.. and this shows in the visuals and settings of all his movies. The movie 'Big Fish' describes how a father describes his life stories and experiences to his son as 'beautiful bed time stories'.. I wouldn't want to spill too many beans here for the sake of the people who have not seen this movie, but if you are remotely interested in artistic cinema, I highly recommend this movie. One of my all-time favorites, for sure.
My rating: 4/5.
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